Nope Springs Eternal

Ever found yourself puzzled and curious about gender dysphoria? Let us, Rachel and Phoebe, be your guides on this journey, taking you through the complexities of this condition, its symptoms, common misconceptions, and varied treatment options. Drawing from the well of our personal experiences, we offer a uniquely empathetic perspective on the discomfort often associated with gender dysphoria.

Navigating  the labyrinth of GD, we examine the profound significance of clothing, and how it impacts our relationship with intimacy. We recall childhood memories – narratives of joy and fear tied to expressing our gender identities, share personal anecdotes, unravel the nuances of our identities and the complexities of navigating public and private spaces.

In light of recent events, our discussion extends to the election of a transgender homecoming queen and the reactions she faced. We shine a light on heroes like Dylan Mulvaney and the Trevor Project, who tirelessly work towards making a difference in the LGBTQ community. We close out our conversation with a Q&A, providing practical advice on managing dysphoria and ensuring bathroom safety for trans individuals. Sharing our stories, our struggles, and our triumphs, we aim to create a safe space for dialogue and understanding. So, join us, not just to learn, but to grow with us.

Chapters

• 0:00 Understanding Gender Dysphoria
• 17:42 Managing Gender Dysphoria
• 30:34 News! The Homecoming Queen and LGBTQ Advocacy
• 41:29 Q&A: Dysphoria Backpedal, and Bathroom Safety for Us All

Transcript

Phoebe: 0:00

Dum, dum, dee, dum, dum, dum, de, dum, dum dum. Oh, that's a lovely coffee, that is. Oh, it's the spot. Yeah, just like Ming.

Rachel: 0:35

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Joy Tuck Club, a podcast that celebrates the diversity and beauty of transgender identities and expressions. I'm Rachel, and with me is my co-host, the beautiful Phoebe. We are also known as Red and Freckles, another team behind two damp trans. Say hello, phoebe.

Phoebe: 0:56

Hi Rachel or Red Red.

Rachel: 0:58

Freckles.

Phoebe: 1:00

Yeah, hey, it's really wonderful to be here, as always, but can we just take a moment to talk about the reaction our first three episodes have had and the amazing feedback we've received?

Rachel: 1:09

Absolutely. When we first started doing this podcast, we envisioned it would be a podcast by trans people four trans people but we could not have predicted the effect we're having on the cis. I know I've had some. I've had amazing amount of people ask me questions because you know we're talking about stuff that cis people have no idea that we have to go through. And why would they? Yeah, we're educated in them as well and I've had hour long conversations with people off of the back of previous episodes. It's been great. Yeah, so to all you cis genders out there.

Rachel: 1:47

Hi Ah, so, phoebe, would you like to tell us what this week's main discussion point is?

Phoebe: 1:55

Yes, it's GD, otherwise known as Gender Dysphoria. We've all been there, we've all felt it, we've all tried to combat it in different ways.

Rachel: 2:04

Sometimes still feel it Well yes, I know we touched on it a little bit last episode, but what exactly is Gender Dysphoria?

Phoebe: 2:14

So last episode we talked about how it's the primary symptom of being trans. Yeah, you are trans if you say you are, and people are trans in all sorts of different ways, but we almost always experience this feeling called Gender Dysphoria. The goog defines the goog. It defines it as the feeling of discomfort or distress that might occur in people whose gender identity differs from their sex assigned at birth or their sex related characteristics, and by that it's actually something that I very much felt all my life. I thought when I looked down my body, I should have been seeing breasts and certainly shouldn't have been seeing the dangly bit that just didn't feel right Now. That's Gender Dysphoria.

Rachel: 3:03

So you knew you had dysphoria, you knew that it wasn't right.

Phoebe: 3:09

Yeah, I would even see it in if the sun was right and I was looking straight down in my shadow, just that little pulled outline on the ground. I used to feel like I shouldn't be able to see my stomach so easily. It should be occluded by boobs, by boobs, yeah, yeah, and I don't know where that came from. It's something that I feel started around puberty and I just wasn't developing in the right way. But I didn't have terms for it. You didn't have a name for it.

Rachel: 3:46

No, no, no. For me, I think it was less defined than that. I think it was just this feeling that I wasn't like everybody else or wasn't like other boys my age. Yeah, I don't think it was like straight away. It wasn't like I'm a girl. I'm a girl. That came later, yeah, so it wasn't. You know, the thing is, it was dysphoria, but, like you, I didn't have a name for it. Yeah, I had a fuzzy feeling in the back of your head.

Phoebe: 4:30

You know Around the amygdala, you know your primal.

Rachel: 4:35

You know, if you stroke a cat backwards yeah, Someone's doing that to your brain. Oh, not to. Yeah, no, it's not comfortable.

Phoebe: 4:43

It's just like find something like that We've touched a little I'm sure we'll come back to it about the physical characteristics, but that discomfort, that goes for clothes as well, doesn't it? Yes, yeah, yeah, how was that for you? I mean, I lived in a world of school uniforms for quite a while. Yeah, and I was in an all-boy school. There was a girl school across the road, same, right, right, how I longed to be dressed differently amongst them. Yeah, and you know, I used to go across the road and talk to them over the fence, but that was so frowned upon, even though I was really young at the time. This was before puberty.

Rachel: 5:27

Sorry, I got lost in the memory then.

Phoebe: 5:29

Oh, you know the clothes. That's summed up that feeling and for me, just remembering it makes my skin kind of crawl, really does. You can see I just sort of tense up and like get it away. There's a really good tweet you found.

Rachel: 5:48

Oh, is there really good tweet? Hang on, let me just find it.

Phoebe: 5:52

It speaks exactly to this feeling.

Rachel: 5:55

And it says being trans isn't a mental illness. The best analogy is a pair of shoes. If you're born with a perfect fit, you won't even think about it, but if you're born with shoes that are too big or too tight, you'll feel it in every step you take. Everyone deserves to wear shoes that fit. Oh yeah, yeah. That's kind of that's a pretty good analogy of summing it up.

Phoebe: 6:24

Yeah. Something to be clear about, though, is that someone experiencing gender dysphoria is not mentally ill. This is the difference between dysphoria and dysmorphia. Yeah, it's a common mistake to make, dysmorphia being that you're unhappy. You see your body in a different way to the way it is typically. In terms of size, it can also be in terms of the length of your legs and all kinds of things. These can be fixed through therapy and surgery. Dysphoria also can be fixed in different ways, but really, what we do in transitioning is treat it. We treat it so that it reduces, in effect. For many of us, I don't think it ever really fully goes away, but nowadays, when I walk down the street, I don't feel like I'm walking along in the wrong set of shoes.

Rachel: 7:23

Yeah, let's also be clear If you don't suffer from dysphoria, it doesn't make you any less trans. If you say you are, it's not a necessary symptom. Not everybody suffers from dysphoria. The thing that I found is that it got so much worse once I knew I was trans and once I had a name for it. You know, it changes even now. Like when I first came out, I remember I had my um, my sit down with a psychologist to get to get my gender dysphoria diagnosis, which is what you need to progress in your transition, get on HRT and whatever. Yeah, um, and he asked me like, do you have any dysphoria over your penis? And at the time I was like, well, no, it's just, it's just there. You know, I don't, I don't don't feel either way about it. Yeah, yeah, and it wasn't the source of dysphoria. But the thing is, as I've gone through my transition and as I've seen myself change, now I look in the mirror and I do get dysphoria over my penis because it doesn't fit with the rest of me. Now, yeah.

Rachel: 8:44

You know, the rest of me has changed. I've become more feminine and, like you said, I've got this thing and it just doesn't look right. It doesn't, I don't want it. Yeah, so you know it's a changing thing. How's dysphoria manifested itself for you?

Phoebe: 9:02

In all sorts of ways, and some of them, I think, align with cis women. To explain when any woman goes and has her hair done, she'll come out feeling more like herself. Yeah, somehow more fitting when I have my lashes done. Oh, yeah, yeah, extensions, love them Right. What an incredible difference it makes psychologically.

Rachel: 9:27

Anybody who's listening. If you haven't had your lashes done, you should go and get them done ASAP. Yeah.

Phoebe: 9:34

Yeah, unless you don't want them.

Rachel: 9:36

Unless you don't. Yeah, yeah, but I feel amazing. Yeah, do you still?

Phoebe: 9:40

feel dysphoria. It comes and goes when I see the parts I still have, just as you described. Yeah, it feels very strange that they're there. I think of it mentally as a skin tag. Honestly, that's, that's the importance that has in my brain. And there was a wonderful mapping of the human brain to the body in terms of surface area, representing sensitivity, and so you had. It looked like a caricature of a person, a stranger, alien person, with the lips being very, very large, quite a large tip of the nose and skinny upper arms, for example, and you can imagine what happened in the genital area. Yeah, and I feel like that mapping's probably changed a lot for me now, right, yeah, yeah, pity, the poor person who was hit with a million pinprick. So to make that original mapping so dysphoria, you know it actually does manifest in several different ways. Right, that's broadly broken down into three categories, yeah, social, body and mind. Do you want to dive into that a bit further?

Rachel: 11:07

Yeah, they're pretty much self-explanatory, but we will. The physical side of it and this is the common way to describe this is really old fashioned, doesn't really fit, but a lot of doctors still require. This is a top tip for you. Yeah, if you're going to go to your GP or your psychologist because you want your diagnosis of gender dysphoria, even though it may not feel like it, but the best thing to tell them is that you feel like you're born in the wrong body, right, that's what they want to hear. They relate to that. That's what they want to hear. Yeah, it ticks the box. Yeah, yeah. So the common way of describing it the physical is born in the wrong body.

Phoebe: 11:45

Right, whereas it's not, is it? It's just your body doesn't fit.

Rachel: 11:50

This body is my body. It doesn't feel like it's the wrong body. It just doesn't look how it was supposed to.

Phoebe: 11:57

Yeah, but I'm changing now. Yes, you're right, and yeah, it's true, my freckles are my freckles.

Rachel: 12:05

I love them. I love them, thank you.

Phoebe: 12:11

Yeah, it's just shaped. Yeah With, it's got the wrong protrusions. Frankly, that's all I can say.

Rachel: 12:20

How does what? Dysphoria of the mind.

Phoebe: 12:24

Well, it's biochemical. You're swimming in the wrong ratio of hormones Once as you go through puberty. If you were assigned female at birth, then you've got too much estrogen for your mind, because your mind differs from your physical body. Your mind wants one type of hormone being dominant and it gets the other. And what we already understand is in this case we're saying there's male and female brains, but it's a lot more complicated than that.

Rachel: 13:02

There's a spectrum right.

Phoebe: 13:03

Yeah, it's not that simple and it's more like a grid, and that grid is more like lifted into 3d space, more like a cube. Yeah, there's at least three axes that are vitally important in the development of the mind, and it's certainly nothing binary about it, because there's too many possible combinations going on. I think it's like saying go back to the birth of the universe, everything was dark and then suddenly it was light and you just stopped there and you go oh, so you have dark on one side and you have light at the other end. That's the universe. It's either completely dark or it's light. Well, wait, we know it's not. We know everything else exists in between. Our brains are the same, our bodies are the same.

Rachel: 13:52

How can that manifest that disparity between your mind and your hormones? If you have an intercourse, you get pleasure from it, yeah, but you lose interest because it's wrong. Is that your mind? What you're doing is pleasurable, but it doesn't feel right.

Phoebe: 14:11

I used to kind of want to turn inside out and I used to flip the sensation around as well, but that was that took work. That wasn't entirely automatic, but it's what would make it feel right for me.

Rachel: 14:27

Yeah, we've touched on physical and mind. Yeah, how about social? Is that the way we present? Is it mismatched how you want to present and how society tells you you should present how you want to be seen? Yeah, yeah.

Rachel: 14:45

I had fun with this because I've always dressed quite feminine, so girls' jeans. You know, when skinny jeans became a thing, I was so happy, so happy. I remember once I got an elder daughter and we were going out for dinner. Yeah, me, my wife, kids, her husband, you know. We were going out for dinner and she came around my house and I went we're wearing the same jeans, I still want them. Yeah, I wasn't changing. No, yeah, yeah. So social is presentational, right. Yeah, so hair makeup or, if you want makeup, probably not allowed to have it, but things like also shaving of body hair.

Phoebe: 15:42

We talked about that with Mia. Your glasses were always.

Rachel: 15:48

Oh yeah, You're right. I always picked my glasses from the ladies side of the shop yeah.

Rachel: 15:53

You used to take. I don't know why. I didn't use to go straight over there, yeah, but I was just going to get my eyes tested and the shop was segregated. One side was female glasses, the other side was male. Yeah, I used to make a show of going to the male one trying on a few pairs and that, oh, and then they would come over to you and go it's going to help you, yeah, I can't really find anything I like. And then they would, of course, always suggest well, if you looked on the other side, you know, some of these styles are quite androgynous. Yeah, oh, okay, yeah, you know, and even if I did pick some of them, it wasn't particularly feminine, it was from the right side of the shop, so it made me happy, yeah, yeah. So in my head it was like tick, yeah, you know, but it was a way of wearing something feminine that wasn't obvious to everybody else, but it calmed the beast within. Yeah, yeah, well, I remembered.

Phoebe: 16:58

I completely forgot about that, oh there's a lot I know about you.

Rachel: 17:05

Can we cut this episode now?

Phoebe: 17:08

That's a wrap. Yeah, there's one other part to this, which is remembering we're talking about gender dysphoria and how it manifests, yeah, and how you deal with it, and there are ways that we manage the dysphoria in all sorts of situations. Yeah, may not seem exactly what they are. One of them is the video game characters.

Rachel: 17:35

Yeah, but like the glasses.

Phoebe: 17:38

Yeah.

Rachel: 17:39

Dysphoria managed yeah.

Phoebe: 17:41

Yeah, exactly.

Rachel: 17:42

And the jeans.

Phoebe: 17:43

Yeah, yeah, just little things, hiding what you wear under the clothes that supposedly fit your gender role.

Rachel: 17:53

Did you ever worry that people would see them?

Phoebe: 17:58

I had the old trope go through my head. But what if you're in an accident and an ambulance and they'll all know and like? But I don't care, I actually want everyone to know. I'm just not brave enough to tell them yet.

Rachel: 18:11

Yeah, yeah, I used to wear tights, not under jeans. Yeah, and it always used to be so paranoid that someone would notice. Yeah, but that still wasn't enough to stop me doing it. Yeah, you know, the risk, or the benefit, the feeling that I got from doing it far outweighed the consequences of getting caught.

Phoebe: 18:41

Yeah.

Rachel: 18:41

That was how I, you know I saved my legs and had to try and keep that hidden. I would normally do it in winter, so people wouldn't see because you're not wearing shorts, but yeah, you know that, first shaving of the leg and then putting on some trousers, the sensation of the cloth that actually touching your skin rather than the hair getting in the way, yes, yes, that, that, that. That.

Phoebe: 19:09

Remember that. Oh so well.

Rachel: 19:11

And then I couldn't understand, after shaving for a little while, why you didn't feel anymore, because you were used to it.

Phoebe: 19:17

Yeah, but that first time, first, few times, special. Yeah, I still attacked my body with raises now and then and then looked like a, like a plucked chicken, yeah. Yeah, it wasn't nice but it was worth it. At the time. I was so happy when I was. It's bringing up a memory from when I was.

Phoebe: 19:36

I was young seven or eight in a school play tiny, tiny role, but it was set in the time of the Crusades and I had to wear tights as part of the costume. Yeah, yeah, remember my mum taking me to a shop buying tights, saying they're for my sister. Who's this imaginary sister at the time same size as me? Okay, no problem, you need these tights and putting them on. And you know, bear in mind this is as a young child. This is before any sexualized version of cross dressing or anything like that. Right, but my brain knew from seeing girls in tights that that's what I should be wearing. Yeah, and it felt so right. Finally, when I put them on, I did keep them after the play and I did put them on now and then, but I didn't dare be caught. So it's. I had a brother around who told me so I had a very similar experience.

Phoebe: 20:42

Yeah.

Rachel: 20:42

I was around a friend's house and I was probably six. Yeah, you know that young like I said no, no sexual desires or sexual feelings and cross dressing or that.

Phoebe: 20:54

Yeah.

Rachel: 20:54

And my friend's mum used to make toys and she'd made a teddy bear for him and she was she was a thrifty gal and she'd stuffed it with old tights. This teddy bear, oh, and it had come undone. Then the tight, I could see the tights inside and I don't know why the, the unravelling teddy bear of wonder. I put one leg in.

Rachel: 21:17

Yeah to a pair of tights and, like you said, it just felt right. And, you know, in that moment it was like oh my God, oh my Rachel, what is this? And then it was shattered the next instant because my friend screaming at the top of his voice for his mum come quick, come quick. You know, and in that moment not only did I learn well, I didn't learn how to bat a peak, yeah and what I might might be, yeah I also learned in that moment it's something I needed to hide, you know. Harsh lesson yeah, Society will not accept you. That was then. Yeah, but better now.

Phoebe: 22:04

But you know that melds through to gender roles as well. Yeah, which is more of a social manifestation? Yeah, absolutely. But what about existential? What about the feeling of loss for what you haven't experienced? Has that occurred to you?

Rachel: 22:30

Oh yeah, absolutely yeah, like you touched on. You went to a boys' school, yeah, you know, and you see these girls and you've missed out on all of their experiences they've had growing up, right, you know, your mum taking you to have your first had an appointment, teaching you how to do makeup, girl guides, you know all these things that you know. Getting your ears pierced yeah, you know, although I did that in Tuberty, yeah, I still missed out on doing it. And you know you miss out on all that experimentation.

Phoebe: 23:08

The other thing I felt I always missed out on was friendships of girls. Growing up I had one when I was tiny. There's a photo I must've been about three with this girl. It was my best friend and I was. I kissed her on the cheek and I remember that photo being waved around as some sort of proof of my I had a girlfriend. I wanted a girlfriend at that age.

Rachel: 23:34

No.

Phoebe: 23:35

I wanted a friend who was a girl.

Rachel: 23:36

Yeah.

Phoebe: 23:37

Really different and I had one year before I left home of being in a co-ed school and that first day there I had about five friends who were all girls, nice, and not a single boy anywhere. Yeah, it was just. I was finally in my element. Where else was I meant to be?

Rachel: 23:58

I didn't find that until my mid teens, like 16. Yeah, because I went to the boys school and I left the boys school. But just before I left I got a job, part time job, working in the supermarket, and most of the people that were there were girls. Right, we had lots of fun talking. Yeah, just felt right. Yeah, you know.

Rachel: 24:21

I can't get. There were guys there as well, but I got much better with the girls, yeah, moving on to something quite a bit more personal, Did you find, as your gender dysphoria increased, that you experienced intimacy in a?

Phoebe: 24:37

you experienced intimacy in a different way. I mean, I found myself. Really it became quite a draw, because it just wasn't working anymore. I never really figured that out.

Rachel: 24:51

But you're losing interest in intercourse because it, without it, feels pleasurable, it feels wrong because you feel like you should be the other person. So if you were assigned male at birth and you're having heteronormative sex yeah, with a female, although you're enjoying it for me and I know you you put yourself in the other person's place. I was gonna say shoes, then yes, you can leave your shoes on if you want. Yes, you do.

Phoebe: 25:23

Yeah, imagine it as it's happening in a different way, so your sensation changes, which is pretty wild. I remember trying to explain that to a partner once and then just looking at me blankly wondering why.

Rachel: 25:41

Why would you even do that? Yeah, I mean very rarely, but a couple of times I was actually permitted to wear stockings whilst having sex and let me tell you that was good sex. Yeah, because that felt right. That felt how I felt I should be. I should be the one in the lingerie, right? So that was easy sex. Do you know something we didn't touch on? What? One of the best things to relieve dysphoria was that first, hrt. Oh, yes, if you, even if you're on the lowest dose of HRT.

Phoebe: 26:24

Yeah.

Rachel: 26:25

That's such a dysphoria relief, yeah, knowing that you're actually doing something, you've got the right hormones, you're starting to fight back, and that's a real good way that, if you're not coming out, just start on the lowest dose. Yeah, and you will feel so good just knowing that you're doing that. And it may not even be enough to make any physical changes, so it's a real good way just to keep on top of things.

Phoebe: 27:00

I remember that incredible feeling when I was taking my first estrogen. It was in pill form, four milligrams, and it was a transformative moment psychologically Because I felt like I was finally on the path to actually treating the dysphoria. Well, of course, that two milligrams is not going to do anything for you, was it four milligrams? Four, four milligrams, what?

Rachel: 27:27

That four milligrams isn't going to do anything. No, no, you have to do what you can to manage the dysphoria.

Phoebe: 27:34

Right, a first shot of tea, a first dose of E.

Rachel: 27:37

Yeah, but in a lot of cases that will cease to be enough and you will have to take the next step. You know, because you can manage it at a certain level. Some people do, I don't know how, but quite successfully.

Phoebe: 27:55

Yeah.

Rachel: 27:56

Manage to keep the dysphoria suppressed by doing some of the things we talked about and management techniques, yeah, but for a lot of people and I know I was one of them it slowly stops being enough and you want more.

Phoebe: 28:10

Yeah.

Rachel: 28:11

And eventually it became unbearable and I came out and had to transition. If you'd like to read more on dysphoria, then do check out the gender dysphoria Bible, which is an excellent website, and it really does a real deep dive into the different types of dysphoria. It's a very comprehensive guide and a very useful tool for those questioning if they're trans. Okay, thank you. Okay, what's up?

Phoebe: 28:41

next, Next, it looks like it's time for the news but you know what we're missing. Thank you, Red EHRC punches down again.

Rachel: 28:58

KC and the Sunshine Trans.

Phoebe: 29:03

Dylan and the Trevor Project.

Rachel: 29:07

Louise Redknapp makes a stand for trans.

Phoebe: 29:10

The now rather ironically named equality and human rights commission in the UK is continuing its descent into the maze of the much reviled. Its latest broadside appears to instruct schools that it's now okay to misgender dead name and otherwise harass students of all ages as long as they don't have a GRC which is funny because GRC is not available anyway 21 at the age of 18.

Rachel: 29:37

Wait, weren't the EHRC originally formed to help the government and other organisations comply with anti-discrimination laws?

Phoebe: 29:45

They were. But even the UN agrees now, after an inspection last year, that their prime directive has become finding legal ways to permit discrimination against vulnerable minorities, chief among them the trans community. Wow.

Rachel: 30:01

Yeah. By the commission's own admission, its prior update was almost wholly ignored by schools across the UK, probably because it too was legally flawed. Schools have a duty of care and a duty to abide by anti-discrimination and anti-harassment laws Right.

Phoebe: 30:18

They know the EHRC's advice is misleading at best and, as you would hope, empathy and compassion actually still holds sway outside of Tufton Street tea rooms.

Rachel: 30:28

Oh, that's a very niche reference. It is yeah, okay. Up next, a little north of Kansas City, missouri, between the suburbs of Liberty and Leavenworth, you'll find Oak Park High School. There's not much to say about this relatively small school that would warrant global news coverage.

Phoebe: 30:48

I mean, you'd think that fancy things like them, getting $155 million stadium built in a school with just 1,500 students, would warrant some sort of global news coverage, but no, they also have an excellent academic record, but no to that either. Really, there's only one thing that can swing the right-wing news machine into action, and that's declaring yet again that they have seen something trans in the woodshed.

Rachel: 31:12

It is cold comfort to imagine that the lunatic fringe can be easily ignored, For what started as a screech of a widely followed Twitter account became the front page news on the magnarific Breitbart news and then scurried across the pond to infest every UK paper of increasingly doubtful repute.

Phoebe: 31:32

The cause of their shock, horror and ire that's going to be endless until they find a new target is that the school's student body, not the teachers, not parents, just the students. As it goes with these things, elected a transgender person, 17-year-old Tristan Young, to be homecoming queen.

Rachel: 31:52

And this in turn triggered physical threats, dramatic declaration from the gender criticals and triggered TERFs, which, for our cis listeners, stands for trans exclusionary radical feminists that claim that men are taking women's places again, and threats of imagined violence against the 17-year-old, still technically a child. And let's not forget, it wasn't the school that voted a homecoming queen, it was all her peers, all her classmates, Right right, she's a popular person, yeah, and they don't have a huge job.

Phoebe: 32:27

This is an honorary position, it's a festive one. They preside over a football game and usually a dance.

Rachel: 32:34

Yeah, the school has a number of other transgender students and the school merely tweets and photos of the homecoming parade, and they have thankfully rallied behind Tristan. Their feed became a torrent of hate before they turned off further comments.

Phoebe: 32:50

Right. But meanwhile Tristan has shown more class than any of her abusers, stating that she's not interested in wasting her time finding back, and nor should she. She's a kid for goodness sake.

Rachel: 33:01

Yeah, and she actually came out to say that she's going to see this as a celebration, a joyful event. She's not going to let the haters get it down, she's not going to give her crown back. Yeah, you know, she said how happy she was to be standing on that field with people who love her and that she loves, and to hear her name announced as the winner and her achievement. I know. Well done, tristan.

Phoebe: 33:28

Yes, and here's a great story Dylan and the Trevor Project.

Rachel: 33:35

Oh, dylan, this is the story of Dylan Mulvaney. She's such a transpiration she is. I love her. So, no, she's amazing, isn't she? You know, I think the thing I love about the most is how much she upsets the GCs just by existing, which is the perfect way to be a trans activist. You don't have to carry signs, you don't have to shout at people, just be the best version of you that you can be and it gets right out of their nose. Yeah, so this is a story about the amazing Dylan Mulvaney and the amazing Trevor Project, and the amazing Trevor Project indeed, and in what should be joyful news for saving trans lives. So what is the Trevor Project exactly?

Phoebe: 34:28

It's a 24 seven helpline or hotline for suicide prevention, focused on LGBTQ youth. Yeah, they also do an enormous amount of advocacy. They see a world where all LGBTQ young people have a brighter future.

Rachel: 34:47

Yeah, I know, particularly in the trans community yeah a high percentage of things above 80% of trans people have considered suicide Right and I think 40 50% have actually attempted it, yep, you know. So what's this got to do with Dylan?

Phoebe: 35:07

Well as a transpiration.

Rachel: 35:11

Dylan.

Phoebe: 35:12

Transpiration to millions. Yeah, absolutely to millions. I haven't checked her latest TikTok following, but it's immense and she's achieved it all very, very quickly and achieved a global prominence which has brought with it the bad along with the good Of course, I think we have to thank the GCs for raising her profile so quickly.

Rachel: 35:34

Well, true, yeah, you know they've all been up in arms about her, but there's no such thing as bad publicity. No, no those boycotts really helped, really did.

Phoebe: 35:47

Kid Rock shooting up a pile of beer cans. That really helped, surprisingly, yeah, yeah. So they made a really interesting choice. They've honored Dylan with the 2023 suicide prevention advocate of the Hero Award, and I see it as a perfect match, honestly. But in this very, very strange world, this has caused lots of GCs to declare that no more will they ever give any money to the Trevor Project. Spoiler alert I'm sure they never did.

Rachel: 36:28

Yeah, I'm sure it's just another one in the long line of boycotts. Yes, oh wait. Yes, is it?

Phoebe: 36:37

Go on.

Rachel: 36:38

GC boycott of the week.

Phoebe: 36:43

Lovely. Very good, your voice is improving. You think yeah.

Rachel: 36:48

Yeah, hit the spot.

Phoebe: 36:52

So I say congratulations to Dylan and well done to the Trevor Project for all the fantastic work they do Absolutely, and for an outstanding choice. Yeah, definitely.

Rachel: 37:05

Don't move on to our last story.

Phoebe: 37:08

Oh, which is a self boycott in the same way that people kick own goals. Is it another?

Rachel: 37:13

boycott, it is Another GC boycott of the week.

Phoebe: 37:20

Oh, that's fantastic.

Rachel: 37:22

Yeah, I can't believe I've got that in one take again. Right, okay, alright. So let's get into the bones of this one.

Phoebe: 37:32

Okay, In the 90s there was a chart topping British girl group called Eternal.

Rachel: 37:38

I know I was a big fan. Oh, just a step from heaven was one of my favorite songs, really. Yeah, Can you hum a few bars? No, I couldn't, possibly. I don't want to ruin my voice. Oh, saving it for the boycotts of the week?

Phoebe: 37:53

Yeah, there's been a lot of them recently. That's true. Eternal was the chart topping British girl group of the 90s and they had planned a full band reunion, but that all fell apart. Do you know why it fell apart?

Rachel: 38:06

It fell apart because the two sisters, Esther and Verney Bennett, allegedly refused to play certain dates over objections to trans issues and those dates just happened to be pride events. Yeah, I think basically they were saying that they support the LGB community and they felt like trans people were taking it over, so they refused to play it because they felt it was supporting trans people. Wow, how did the other two band members Obviously the high profile one is Louise Rednapp yeah, so what did Louise Rednapp and fourth band member, kelly Bryan think about this?

Phoebe: 38:42

Well, louise is a huge supporter and ally of the LGBTQ plus community, and both herself and Kelly said they weren't going to work with anyone who held the fuse that the other two sisters had, and so, as such, there was no way for the reunion to go ahead.

Rachel: 38:58

Wow, the team behind the proposed eternal reunion are gay, including management, pr and tour promoter. Shortly after the news dropped, rednapp posted a picture of the progress pride flag on a social media feeds captioned always and forever, which is Phoebe knows, is the title of a turtle's first album. Oh is it.

Phoebe: 39:21

Oh no, you, I'm from Australia.

Rachel: 39:24

They're not my Australia.

Phoebe: 39:27

You've shared previously how I have no pop context pop culture stunted. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Okay.

Rachel: 39:35

Once we finish, we'll pop that out Can't wait Me, you and me and I have a dance.

Phoebe: 39:43

So here's the irony in all of this the two sisters said they're not going to play these events. And so Louise and Kelly said well, the reunion's over, because we don't want to be in a band with people like that yeah, like you, you know who hold these views. And the sisters and GC and turf, internet and news organizations then said it was Louise Rednapp who had canceled them.

Rachel: 40:16

Yeah, but actually they were the ones to end the cantoning.

Phoebe: 40:18

Yeah.

Rachel: 40:20

And in the end they end up canceling themselves.

Phoebe: 40:23

They did, and in that way Louise Rednapp's husband would appreciate that they kicked an own goal.

Rachel: 40:29

Oh, very good. Wow, Doesn't listen to a turner's first album. Knows all about Jamie Rednapp. What's that all about? What's up next?

Phoebe: 40:41

Phoebes Questions and maybe answers. Okay, all right, so we're at this part of the podcast again. I love this part, actually, where we answer any transition related questions and offer information on all aspects of being trans, from how to come out to what to wear when you go out.

Rachel: 41:02

Yeah, we should just point out that the content of this podcast is for general information and entertainment purposes only. You should always seek the advice of a qualified expert before making any decisions based on the information provided.

Phoebe: 41:15

Thank you, can we have the first question, please.

Rachel: 41:17

Of course, our questions. This episode are from the Reddit Ask Transgender Forum, because you know we'll still waiting for you and lovely listeners to send us in some questions, but you know where we are. You do. And this first one continues our dysphoria theme and it is this Hi all, I realized I was trans about four and a half months ago, and before then I never had any dysphoria. It was only a sort of disconnected feeling from myself. I didn't feel right, almost as if I was just acting like this, like a man, because that's what I was raised as and that's what people expect. I realized I was trans when I asked my friends to use the sheet slash her for me, and I really liked it. It gave me euphoria. However, since then, I felt dysphoria quite a bit in many different aspects and I just wanted to know if anyone else's experience was like this and if this is normal. In short, didn't have dysphoria before realizing I was trans, but I do. Now I'm MTF 18.

Phoebe: 42:24

Oh, all right. So I sense a fairly fresh egg here.

Rachel: 42:29

Yeah, four and a half months cracked.

Phoebe: 42:32

Yeah, yeah, they haven't been able to travel very far along the journey yet, but I think we actually discussed the answer to this a little earlier. You mentioned that feelings of dysphoria can increase, and typically do once your eggs cracked throughout.

Rachel: 42:54

Yeah, once you realize you're trans. Yeah, and you've got a name for it. Yeah.

Phoebe: 42:58

Yeah, so they want to know if anyone else's experience is like this and if this is normal and I think a high percentage of trans people would relate to this. Right, you know we've got that interview coming up shortly with Oliver Radcliffe. Yeah, and he said exactly the same thing. Yeah, as soon as that button was pushed, that said I know what I am. It's like a. His word was a roller coaster.

Rachel: 43:27

I have no name for you here, but it's perfectly normal, that's it? Nothing to add to that, really. You answered that really well, oh thanks. I have nothing to add. Good answer.

Phoebe: 43:40

Shall I read the next one? Yeah, hey, I'm 20 years old and I need some advice on how I can get rid of my dysphoria. For the longest time, I didn't really understand trans people. I've watched videos of trans people and I started to feel dysphoric. And I've been becoming more and more so over the previous months, to the point where I overthink a lot.

Phoebe: 44:00

I've been daydreaming about wanting to be a girl. That started when I was 14, where I'd watch cartoon videos of guys dressing up as cute girls and I think to myself wow, how do I get dressed up like that? So can you all give me some advice on how to get rid of my dysphoria? My family is pretty traditional and I don't actually want to keep having these thoughts, even though I sometimes hate being a guy. But you know, I'm scared to even search up the word trans on Google, twitter and so on, because there's so much blatant transphobia. I don't know how you guys do it, to be honest. So can you all give me some advice? How do I get rid of it? So I still embrace being a male? Wow, that's. How do you not transition this? This person's describing all the symptoms.

Rachel: 44:45

Are they scared to transition because of the trans fiber out there in the moment or because they don't actually want to be trans? They sound pretty confused.

Phoebe: 44:56

Well, they say their family is pretty traditional. So you know that's a prime factor in preventing transition. That's one of the primary causes in de transitioning. It's all set up for that.

Rachel: 45:11

Yeah, but okay, you know, I came out and it went into my transition. My then wife wasn't coping with it very well.

Phoebe: 45:20

Yeah.

Rachel: 45:20

And I could see the right in on the wall.

Phoebe: 45:22

Yeah.

Rachel: 45:22

Yeah, I knew if I pursued my transition it was most likely going to end our marriage. So I was like, hey, that's fine. Yeah, I can stop this. I can put it all back in the box and pretend that never happened. You know, go back to how I was. Yeah, it's gonna be fine, wasn't fine?

Phoebe: 45:45

No.

Rachel: 45:46

You know it's very difficult. Once you've made that connection, it's quite easy to carry on with your life pretending to be the person you're not. When you don't know what you are, it's so much harder to put it all away and ignore it all. Once you've had that eureka moment like oh my God, I'm trans. Yeah, I'm not saying you can't do it, Some people can do it. It hats off to them because I don't know how they can do it. But you know it's tough.

Phoebe: 46:22

I think that the only thing I can suggest is there's nothing stopping you trying to put it all back in its box and ignore how you feel and avoid those searches and don't talk about it with anyone. Keep it all bottled up and see how long you go. Maybe you'll arrive at a place in your life some point in the future where you can unpack some of this and start to alleviate some of the dysphoria. But keeping it out of sight, out of mind, I don't know. I have more power to you if you can.

Rachel: 46:57

Or maybe you can transition to gender fluid, non binary. You know you don't have to go the whole hog. Yes, Maybe that will be enough just to start dressing a little bit more androgynously or just a little bit more feminine. You don't have to. You know different degrees of transitioning. Yes, it's not one one size fits all.

Phoebe: 47:21

Yeah, maybe that is not aware of that. Yeah, or how amazing, if it can be, of just having some hormones, they may not be somewhere where they can do that. That's a really tough position and I don't really have anything more to say on that. No, what a question.

Rachel: 47:40

Final question, not dysphoria related, but I feel like we're both in a pretty good position to advise on this one. So I'm 20. Female to male and pretty everything. I've been using women's bathroom because I didn't think I passed. But for the last month or so, every time a stranger has used the gender term, they've used masculine, male ones. I'm now not sure which bathroom to use, because I don't want women to see me assume correctly I'm a guy and then get uncomfortable upset. But I also don't want to use the men's because if they think I'm female I could be in danger. I've been mostly avoiding using public bathrooms since I started, passing to some people, but I know it's going to be unavoidable in some situations. So anyone have any advice on which would be the safest to use when I can't avoid using a gendered one? I'm asking here because I know bathroom culture etiquette differs between countries and I'd like to get the most applicable advice for the UK. Phoebe, what do you think?

Phoebe: 48:49

So this is a really good question because it's applicable to the UK, but I think it applies anywhere in the West. Yeah, and we might all, with changing bathroom laws, be pushed into certain situations that we're not comfortable with to satisfy the comfort of others. My initial reaction on hearing this is probably not my final one, but my initial one was just you know, you might be safer using a women's bathroom, because I know what men can be like. It feels like a dangerous situation to be in. You're pre-everything, and a male clocking you in their bathroom seems like a maybe an unnecessary risk, but, on the other hand, that's what we do anyway. In being trans, life becomes a risk that is necessary, yeah, so what do you think?

Rachel: 49:48

Well, I think the other way. I think it's better off using the male lavatories. Yeah, because you know what it is passing the last month or so, every time a stranger just uses a gender term, that's masculine, male ones passing or starting to pass. Yeah, you're not going to want to be in the female toilets. Yeah, because there's craziness now. Because there's craziness now. And the other thing is use the male toilets because guys won't even look at you. They don't. Guys don't look at each other in the toilets, let alone speak to other people in the toilet. So that's a great point. Yeah, yeah.

Rachel: 50:26

So I think you're safer going into the men's than you are going into the women's and someone clocking you as male telling their right husband who's waiting outside with the shopping.

Phoebe: 50:36

Yeah.

Rachel: 50:37

There's a guy in there. Yeah, because that's going to lead to a difficult situation. I think you're much safer in the guys bathroom. Oh, because it's a thing in guys bathroom no eye contact.

Phoebe: 50:52

Yeah.

Rachel: 50:52

No talking.

Phoebe: 50:53

Yeah yeah. No one hangs around in front of the mirror either.

Rachel: 50:56

No, go in a cubicle, you're good, yeah. So I'd say, use the men's.

Phoebe: 51:01

Oh, good answer. Okay, is that? It Question time's over. I hope we've provided some useful answers and that's a wrap for this episode of the Joy Tuck Club. We want to thank you, our listeners, for tuning in and being part of our community. If you want to connect with us further, please visit our website, thejoytuckclubcom, where you can find show notes, resources, transcripts and more.

Rachel: 51:27

You can also follow us on Twitter, instagram and Blue Sky the handle is at 2damtrans and now on Facebook as well. Yeah, you can DM us on any of those platforms if you have any questions or topics you'd like us to discuss.

Phoebe: 51:42

Don't forget to subscribe and rate us on Spotify, apple or wherever you listen to podcasts. We're on all the popular platforms now, and even some of the unpopular ones too.

Rachel: 51:52

Speaking of podcasts yeah, we just recorded the most fantastic interview with one, oliver Radcliffe. Yeah, we did. Do you want to tell us a bit more about Oliver?

Phoebe: 52:02

Well, he's okay. So he's our first FTM interview.

Rachel: 52:07

This is one of our transpiration specials that hopefully we're going to be released next week. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Phoebe: 52:13

And I've never heard a more interesting exposition on all topics relating to the transgender experience.

Rachel: 52:20

I found it particularly informative, you know, because, like I say in the interview, we're on the same journey but we're walking opposite directions on the path, so it was really, really fascinating to hear what it's like. Yes, going in the other direction, yeah, and like the two sides of the same coin yeah. It was great. I think it's admissible. Yes.

Phoebe: 52:44

Absolutely so. Look for it next week With new cover art Indeed. So we appreciate your feedback and support.

Rachel: 52:54

Until next time, remember you are valid, you are beautiful and you are transcending boundaries.