The Joy Tuck Club
A podcast that celebrates the diversity and beauty of transgender identities and expressions.
How well do you truly understand the vibrant spectrum of transgender identities? Get ready to challenge and expand your perspectives as we share personal stories, debunk myths, share news, and provide helpful insights, advice on transitioning, and tips on being a better ally.
The Joy Tuck Club
Plans, Trans, and Automobiles
What happens when two trans podcasters decide to trade in negative headlines for personal stories of joy and adventure? Rachel and Phoebe, affectionately known as Red and Freckles, invite you to find out as they kick off season two of the Joy Tuck Club podcast after a long hiatus. We've had a whirlwind of a year, from Phoebe's globe-trotting escapades to our serendipitous nuptials. Tune in to hear all about our unexpected challenges, like navigating the UK border and sharing laughter-filled days at Disneyland Paris. We're reconnecting with our listeners and hope to feature your uplifting stories in upcoming episodes.
Embark on our European escapades as we recount a Christmas spent in a picturesque French cottage and the bittersweet trials of maintaining a long-distance relationship. The logistical gymnastics of finalizing a divorce and tackling visa hurdles led us to the sunlit shores of Cyprus, seeking a warm, welcoming expat community. We'll take you along on a rollicking road trip covering seven countries, complete with mechanical mishaps and an encounter with the Belgian police that turned an ordeal into an unforgettable adventure. Our tales are filled with humor, warmth, and the resilience needed to make a new home in unfamiliar lands.
Join us as we explore the emotional landscape of transitioning identities across borders, sharing the highs and lows of immigration challenges and healthcare frustrations. We discuss the comforting presence of friends like Frances and the joy of reunification with loved ones. Expect candid film reviews and book recommendations, too, as we critique the portrayal of trans stories in media and spotlight the extraordinary within the ordinary. With a sprinkle of humor and a dose of real-life experiences, we aim to highlight the beauty and complexity of living authentically.
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Visit The Joy Tuck Club online at redandfreckles.com for transcripts, commentary, community, news, and much, much more.
Meanwhile, you can always find red+freckles (Rachel & Phoebe) on
Twitter/X: @twodamptrans
Instagram: @twodamptrans
and
Bluesky: @twodamptrans.bsky.social
The Joy Tuck Club is written, produced, and edited by red+freckles, of Two Damp Trans Ltd, UK.
mouth a little dry. It is, yeah, right let's try that again.
Rachel:Hello and welcome finally to the oh my god goodness, a sip of coffee. I was all ready for this how about some salmon bitch?
Phoebe:just, I took a mouthful. This is why we do this is why we do this.
Rachel:This is why we do this. I've missed this. Hello and welcome, finally, to another episode of the Joy Tuck Club, a podcast that celebrates the diversity and beauty of transgender identities and expressions. I'm Rachel and I'm delighted to say, back from her transcontinental world tour of France, cyprus, france, again, northern Europe and Australia is my wife and co-host, the beautiful Phoebe. We're also known as Red and Freckles and are the team behind Two Damp Trans. Welcome back and say hello, phoebe. Hello.
Phoebe:Oh, my God, it's good to be back. Also, I left and I wasn't your wife and I came back as your wife. Were you present for that transformation? I don't even remember that happening. Oh no, I know, I know, I know Denmark We'll talk about it later Wonderful. Copenhagen, I know, I know Seven months.
Rachel:Seven months At sea. Well, it's been longer than that for the podcast it has, but the podcast has been gone for almost a year, I feel.
Phoebe:This is the first episode of season two. We've changed the format a little bit.
Rachel:It's going to be more casual, a bit more chatty yeah.
Phoebe:Less news, less news. Why did we change the news? Mostly, it was bad.
Rachel:Yeah.
Phoebe:Yeah, yeah. Remember how we started out and we said we're going to focus on uplifting stories.
Rachel:We're only going to do uplifting positive trans news. There wasn't any. There wasn't any. No.
Phoebe:The state of things. Even in the UK, where we are, there was the election and we thought, yay, labour's in. Things are going to change.
Rachel:The red Tories, as it turns out, may actually be worse.
Phoebe:It's like a bait and switch. We're going to get. A bait and switch yeah.
Rachel:So the news is still going to make an appearance. It's just if we ever find anything positive.
Phoebe:Yes, yes, Well, if any of you listeners have a story that's positive, please share it with us. Yeah, We'll listeners have a story that's positive.
Rachel:Please share it with us. Yeah, we'll be glad to repeat it, so we're going to change the format a little bit, but we're we're just as disorganized as normal. Uh, anything else new? Uh, we have some new equipment.
Phoebe:Oh, a new weapon in our podcast armory yeah, confusingly called zoom which podcast people will know about. It's not the I call it.
Rachel:I've got it down in the notes. It's a pod trek, p4, a p4 yeah we named him we trekkie potty.
Phoebe:No, I can't remember what it was. It had a name.
Rachel:It did have a name well, we'll get back to you on that one. Yeah, yeah yeah sure you're. You'll be hanging on the airways waiting for us us to tell you what our pod track is called.
Phoebe:Anyway, it's a fabulous little recording device that we can take on the road with us, which we totally plan to do now that we're back in together.
Rachel:But, more importantly, it gives me the ability to do this.
Phoebe:Oh, good Lord, oh, you have assumed with great power.
Rachel:You know how that goes. Anytime I say anything, it's going to be met with this Tell a joke. But more importantly, I've also got this. I've got control of you. Oh no, you don't Really. Yeah, Pheebs, what do you think about that? Best one, isn't it? Is it Pheebs? Is it really the best one? Best one, isn't it? What do you want to think about this podcast?
Both:best one isn't it. What was that coffee? Best one isn't it.
Phoebe:She's a bit repetitive um, that came from something that I sent you. I inadvertently recorded and somehow sent to you.
Rachel:Well, the way I remember it is, we were in bed one morning and Phoebe accidentally lent on her phone and I think she's probably talking about me.
Phoebe:I'm going to have to put tape over these soundboard buttons.
Rachel:Okay enough with the soundboards.
Phoebe:Right, let's get back on script. So I would like to take this opportunity to apologise to our listeners for it. All three of you, yes, and we know exactly who you are. We can name you. It's been quite an absence and most of you know the story, but I thought, yeah, probably a bit of an explanation, and also because it was a curious journey in its own right and we might as well talk about it Sounds good. Misogyny around the world.
Rachel:So, Pheebs, I have a question that I'm sure the listeners really want answered. Well, I know I do, because I don't know where you've been. Where have you been?
Phoebe:Well, you came to visit me. Sometimes I did.
Rachel:Should we go back to the beginning?
Phoebe:Well, indeed, yes.
Rachel:Because it all started around this time last year, yes, when we decided to take my daughter on a trip to Disneyland Paris. Yes. And it was a lovely trip, wasn't?
Phoebe:it, it was.
Rachel:Lovely few days. Yeah yeah, yeah, and the problem came after that trip, when we tried to come back to the UK.
Phoebe:Yeah, that was about 11 months ago.
Rachel:I remember the date exactly it was the 27th of October Right? So it's literally almost a months ago.
Phoebe:I remember the date exactly it was the 27th of October.
Rachel:Right, so it's literally almost a year ago.
Phoebe:Yeah, we got to Border Force, as they're well known.
Rachel:Have I got a boo button on here? Yeah, no, not yet We'll work on the soundboard.
Phoebe:Yeah, and they said I couldn't come back into the country. I'm not sure why they didn't want me. People seek to welcome me, but they didn't. This Australian, who's lived in the US, who has alighted in the UK, ostensibly as a tourist, and is now clearly in a relationship. So the nature of your travel has changed.
Rachel:So, basically, you were told to come back into the UK, you needed to obtain a visa, yeah yeah, which, at the time, we were like, okay, let's just get you a visa. So we secured you a hotel for the night or for a few nights, wasn't it at the beginning? And then a wonderful little Airbnb property in the amazing northern France town of Grand Fort Philippe.
Phoebe:Yeah, yeah. So Grand Fort Philippe, a village with one cafe, one restaurant, a corner shop and a decent supermarket some ways up the road and a lot of very cold people.
Rachel:How was northern france in winter?
Phoebe:effing freezing, bracing yeah yeah, yeah, yeah it was, it was horrible. Uh, also, I was stuck with we'd gone to paris with overnight back.
Rachel:Yeah, yeah, I was stuck without anything yeah, I remember because I had the option, because obviously, as a uk citizen that I'm, I'm free to re-enter the uk, but they were gonna just unceremoniously dump you outside the gates in calais with nothing. But I don't think probably at that point he didn't even have any clean underwear.
Phoebe:I always have spare underwear.
Rachel:I re-entered trance with you. We took you to a hotel and literally gave you everything that I had on me you did, yeah, yeah, your coat, and like the works my barber yeah it's now your barber yeah, that's a coat, by the way, not a hairdresser. And then I returned to the UK, yeah, and then came back out. As soon as I could didn't, I Secured a passage back to France, bringing you some much-needed supplies.
Phoebe:Oh yeah, and tissues. There was a lot of crying.
Rachel:Yeah, there was a lot of crying in those early days.
Phoebe:Yeah, I didn't actually know what the future held anymore. No, because we'd made a home together, and but that was the problem. It was that was the problem.
Rachel:Yeah, yeah, we've been in and out of the country many times before that, but this was the first time you actually said to the border border force that, um, we were engaged because at this stage, we were engaged, yeah, and they decided that you were no longer a tourist, which is why you needed to get a visa and, in all fairness, they were correct they were correct.
Phoebe:Yes, yeah yeah, it's just, it just didn't match our timeline. No, we had our plans and, yeah, being shunted through this like that wasn't part of it. Anyway, grand Fort Philippe Sounds like a swinging town. What was there to do? There was a very long concrete, not a jetty.
Rachel:We called it a jetty, didn't we? Yeah, it had a couple of walks out there.
Phoebe:Yeah, it went for about a mile and a quarter out into the ocean, into the very bracing breeze. There was across the water the Petit Fort Philippe, which was much grander than Grand Fort Philippe, so we know which one got to name themselves first.
Rachel:Yeah yeah. It had a bit more going for it, didn't it it?
Phoebe:did. And the Gravelinas nuclear reactor. Oh dear, that was a big part of the town, woo-hoo.
Rachel:And ducks.
Phoebe:Ducks, lots of ducks. Remember the ducks? Oh my God. Well, this is where I discovered that a lot of the French, pardon me enjoy a weekend or weekday, or any time it seemed habit of duck shooting. I didn't know this. I spotted this lovely open field, couldn't actually read the warning signs because I don't speak any French, and wandered in and I'm just happily traipsing along, lost in my thoughts, listening to some music, I think, and blam, there goes a gun Like oh no. Having been in the US for about 15 years, I was pretty attuned to guns. Living in New York, you'd hear them go off in the middle of the night and go oh God, thank God that wasn't in my direction, I think. Anyway, then there was another and another and I start looking around and I see all these guys. I am so unobservant, as you have observed.
Rachel:Yes.
Phoebe:There's all these guys wandering around in camouflage gear carrying weapons.
Rachel:Everyone in camouflage gear. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Easy to spot them.
Phoebe:Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah Stood out like a duck on a cold winter's day. I was like what in the duck is going on anyway, it turns out that, um the dick, there were decoy ducks on ponds and I didn't understand what they were there for. I'd taken photos of them. They're not so much decoys, I suppose, as actual. They're meant to fool actual ducks into landing on the pond, so they can be pictures.
Rachel:If you're a migrating duck and you're flying over grand fort philippe, oh look at those lakes. Yeah, they're obviously friendly because there's a whole family of ducks down there. I'm going to go down and have a rest.
Phoebe:Yeah, you obviously haven't read the reports from France about pâté and duck livers.
Rachel:I don't think ducks can read French.
Phoebe:That's why they have the signs in French Ducks and Australians, yeah, ducks, and Australians get fooled quite easily.
Rachel:Yeah, where did you stay in Grand Fort Philippe? What was that accommodation like?
Phoebe:Oh, that was the tiniest little cottage. Yeah, I think that was smaller than our place here.
Rachel:It's warmer oh it's warmer.
Phoebe:I had heaters. Yeah, were you there alone? Oh no, I had a polish electrician, the polish electric.
Rachel:Yes, yes, yes who, who stank of man. Oh so much remember when, every time he came out of the bathroom I had this deodorant.
Phoebe:That was all mad. It was kind of like if a deodorant brand was called Dick, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick and balls he wore it.
Rachel:It was probably something like Axe or Mace.
Phoebe:It was very very gender, affirming yeah, very, and yeah, the stench was something atrocious. I was also annoyed because I was there first. I was there for three months and he took over the fridge because his mother made him all sorts of foods in Poland which he'd go back and pick up and it was like a truckload of food and he'd shove it all into the fridge and I'd be left with the tiny little shelf space. But anyway he was non-threatening, which was nice. But anyway he was non-threatening, which was nice. Yeah, he didn't hit on me, which is unlike the other French men in that little village who must have been starved for blondness or something, but the constant.
Rachel:Trans in Provence. How was that? What did the locals think about you?
Phoebe:There't many provincial trads? No, I don't think. Um, I got, I think, invited to a threesome in the little cafe. Uh-huh, it was a couple who were yeah, anyway, I, um, and I kept getting hit on, so I had to stop going to the cafe by drunk men at 11 am when I was just in there for a little little coffee, um, stepping away from the market after doing a bit of grocery shopping marvellous french pastime of being drunk yeah, in the morning in the morning.
Phoebe:Yeah, yeah, yeah wine and cigarettes yeah, I mean, it sounds romantic, doesn't it?
Rachel:it does, if you're partial to that, so we picked grand fort, philly, because it was very easy for me to come and see you.
Rachel:Yes, yes, just hopping that, just just, you were two hours away, two hours, where you'd come drive, drive down the microwave, take me half an hour to get to the tunnel, pop through the tunnel and and a half hour the other side it's great Come blasting out of the tunnel. It was good, so we tried to see each other as much as we could. Christmas was particularly good. That was a good time over Christmas. It was.
Phoebe:It was.
Rachel:You managed two Christmases. I did. I had Christmas here with my daughter yeah, cooked Christmas dinner, dropped. I had Christmas here with my daughter yeah, cooked Christmas dinner, dropped her off in the evening. Packed everything into the car yeah, drove through the tunnel or on the train through the tunnel and turned up at Grand Fort Philippe still just inside Christmas Day, do you remember?
Phoebe:what I was wearing that day.
Rachel:Yes, yeah yes, yeah, I think if you've been on a um, if you've been on a tiktok and you've seen seen my rendition of the the night before transmis, you'll get some idea of how I turned up dressed for phoebe fabulous yeah, it was.
Phoebe:It was my little present for her um I enjoyed unwrapping you too.
Rachel:Yeah, yeah right, I got enjoyed being unwrapped. It was quite warm in that little flat, in that little it's not a flat, a little cottage, cottage. Yeah, cottage made it sound grander than it was. Yeah, there's four rooms.
Phoebe:Yeah, four rooms down an alley. Yeah, it was quite hard to find the first time. Actually, both places I stayed in France were like that. They were tucked way back, tucked. They were tucked off, tucked, tucked so to speak. Off the road, hidden from sight.
Rachel:They were tucked off the beaten track. Yeah, they were tucked off the beaten track.
Phoebe:Yeah Anyway, I am ashamed to say that all my time there my French barely improved. Yeah yeah, that's not so bad.
Rachel:I was also a bit of a mess. You resisted taking the opportunity of spending three months in France to actually improve your language skills.
Phoebe:Yes, yes, well, every part of me didn't want to be there.
Rachel:Yeah, so originally we thought three months would be long enough.
Phoebe:Yeah.
Rachel:To secure the visa, but due to, let's say, complications from my side. Yeah, so we were originally going to pursue a fiancé visa because we were engaged. We'd got engaged, yeah, um july last year. So we were engaged, um, so we're going to try a fiance visa, but we would rise that that was a bit of a waste of money because the fiance visa only lasts for six months and we would be better off getting married. So we started looking into that, but unfortunately I was still married, so we couldn't obtain the visa or get married until I was divorced. Are you looking for the button that goes wop, wop?
Phoebe:wop. No, no, no, I was just checking the status of the recorder.
Rachel:Yeah, so me getting divorced meant that Phoebe's exile was extended and you can only get three months in Europe, not just France in Europe, In the EU.
Phoebe:Or the Schengen region, Schengen which includes Norway, which isn't directly part of the EU, and some other places. We did find one eventually. I think it got down to choice of Bulgaria, Turkey or Cyprus, cyprus.
Rachel:Yeah, I remember Bulgaria looked to be the cheapest option. Yeah, but probably the least fun. Yes, I think, Bulgaria would have been very much like your time in Grand Fort Philippe. Yes, maybe worse, I don't know. I remember but, with the added disadvantage that you were further away from me and I wasn't just two hours away, that's right, yeah, so Cyprus it was we picked Cyprus because we thought the sunshine might do you a good job.
Rachel:I know thought the sunshine might do you a good job. We also thought with the thriving expat community in Paphos you might actually feel a little bit less isolated, because I know in France, especially in the early days, you were very lonely, like you said there was a lot of crying.
Phoebe:Well, I couldn't flick a switch and turn on French either. I didn't have anyone to talk to. No, yeah, and there was very little English. There was as little English there as I had French.
Rachel:Yeah, so you embarked on a.
Phoebe:it was a 24-hour journey to get to Paphos, wasn't it Because you left and stayed in a hotel? Oh, it was a bus, a couple of trains, a plane, a bus, yeah, yeah, it was a lot, hence the name of this episode Plans, trans and Automobiles.
Rachel:That's right. This is all about. That's going to be the episode title. This is all about our globetrottingting. Yeah, as it turns out. Yeah, was it a bus? A train? The hotel, I know? I know it was a very complicated journey because where you were in grand fort philippe it was not exactly on a commuter route to paris no and you flew out of paris's shitty little airport, didn't you? Yes, it wasn't Charles de Gaulle, it wasn't the grand one. I can't even remember what it was called.
Phoebe:Beauvine, beauvers, beauvers, beauvers. I mean, look, I will say that the French market was fabulous. It would arrive once a week. I've never seen anything like it. It would hit the town square. You know the cheeses oh jesus, jesus, jesus. Oh, the cheeses and the bread and so on. That was, that was fabulous.
Rachel:But yeah, that was, that was the highlight so off we went to pathos and I remember you being very excited to actually be able to walk around in just like a vest top rather than having to wear the barber oh, I know, I know um down by the, down to the harbor, along there, loads of walks yeah, yeah, I came out to see you.
Rachel:There was a quite a long gap, wasn't there, between you leaving grand fort, philippe, and then me being able to get out to see you. Five weeks, yeah, I think that's the longest period at that point, yeah, that we hadn't seen each other yeah, oh then, and, and I adopted many cats well, I was going to say yeah, I mean, you're sitting here, resplendent in your headphones, with your cat ears on uh-huh and um, yeah, you, you.
Rachel:Rather than find anybody in the expat community, you found lots, of, lots of people in the cat community yeah, I did not the ex-cat, the current cat community. You took in a stray. I remember one day you're like, oh, there's a stray cat, because there's lots of stray cats in pathos but they are very well cared for. People leave food out in the streets for them. Yeah, um, and you, you took one in, didn't?
Rachel:you took one in for a bit of company yeah, yeah, and then another um, no, no I was thinking well, fair enough, you know, it might do us some good to have have a companion, and before I knew it, one became four. Uh-huh, yeah, do you remember the name of the first one? But, um, it was noodle, oh, noodle it was little noodle it was noodle, it was little noodle. Then you had Noodle, Doodle, Apple and Strudel.
Phoebe:Yeah, yeah, yeah, from the Wonka, From the Wonka film, yeah, yeah.
Rachel:So I came out to see you. We had a couple of adventures out there, didn't we? Including hiking up a gorge. That was gorgeous. It was gorgeous. Hang on, I need to be. I know it is that needs to be here next to me, so I've got access to the buttons well, I mean in all this time.
Phoebe:Those were the highlights of my journey. Whenever you'd come and would do something just wonderful.
Rachel:They weren't extravagant, they were just extraordinary we'd have these wonderful walks hired a car, we drove out to the gorge and I think we probably got there after midday, yeah, like early afternoon, yeah, and we started hiking up this gorge and there was there was a point, wasn't it do you remember? As it was starting to get dark and we were like, oh, yeah we don't know how long this is going to take to get out of this gorge yeah, there's this very rocky gorge with lots of leaps across water and so on.
Phoebe:That wouldn't be easy.
Rachel:We could turn back and know how long it would take us to get back and probably get back to the car before dark.
Phoebe:Yeah.
Rachel:Or forge on through the gorge?
Phoebe:Yeah, and we'd been going for, I think, a couple of hours by then. Yeah, so you asked me and I said said well, let's just go forward and we did mostly because I didn't fancy breaking an ankle on a rock going back through the gorge yeah, and we were rewarded with magic hour on top of the mountain, weren't we?
Rachel:we were with the goats way up, high trans-colored skies yeah, it was amazing. And then walking back into pitch black, yeah, by phone light.
Phoebe:Yeah yeah, that was beautiful, absolutely good yeah yeah, plenty of long walks.
Rachel:We hired, we hired scooters it did. That was a lot of fun yeah zipping along the seafront on scooters, and that then led us to purchase our own scooters. Yes, but but even in Paphos you were lonely and isolated. Yeah, because I think you just wanted to be here and I wanted you here, you know so.
Phoebe:Yeah, and there's lots of nightlife and everything there. But I just didn't want to be part of that. I had the same. It was worse than France in a way, because I didn't feel safe walking along the streets there. Um, I would get followed, I would get cars would be stopping, cars would be following me. Um, guys just winding down windows saying, hey, where are you going? Because I'm going there, I'll give you a lift, like it was. And I became almost a shut-in, yeah, which is a shame because it's a really pretty area, but I did go for walks during the day.
Rachel:Yeah, yeah. And we found a lovely place. We did a lovely gyros, yeah, yeah, yeah, just down the road. That was nice. Yeah, seven euros or something, wasn't it? Yeah, for gyros and frits, yeah. And then there was that restaurant just around the corner from you. You went for a pizza one night, do you remember? Do you remember that night?
Phoebe:Oh, yes, yes, yes, oh, I do remember that quite well. Very comfortable seats, yes.
Rachel:Anyway anyway.
Phoebe:Oh, and I had to get things organised for marriage and visa because I had to get my name legally changed back in Australia. So I got to meet the Australian High Commission. It was about a two hour bus ride away and she was lovely, wasn't she? Absolutely yeah, they had a lovely big dog there too. It's nice. They said you can come. You normally think of embassies and commissions and so on as very restricted places, restricted, pompous and official, yeah yeah. But they said to me look, you can just come back any time you want, just hang out with our dog and with us, and you're more than welcome.
Rachel:So that was Paphos, and once again you had to come back to France. Yes, yes, did you stay three months in Cyprus? Yeah, yeah, oh, the return journey in Cyprus. Yeah, yeah, oh, the return journey from Cyprus. I remember was absolutely horrible. Do you remember that? I do?
Phoebe:I'd shut that out. It was awful I got so. Oh, that was bad, wasn't it? Well, I was all packed, I was so excited. Got to the airport early in the morning they said the flight's full. How can the flight? I've got my ticket, I've got my reservation, I've got everything. And they said no, no, no, you can't come on. And that was it.
Rachel:You were stranded at the airport, weren't you?
Phoebe:we can't reaccommodate you and what the.
Rachel:I think it was something like five days.
Phoebe:Their next flight that they could get me on was like five days away.
Rachel:It was about holiday weekend, wasn't it? It was definitely Something was going on, because I remember I was trying to find any flight. Yeah, I was remotely in the UK searching for flights and pinging you flights to book, just to get you out of Cyprus.
Phoebe:Yeah.
Rachel:So you returned to France via Italy.
Phoebe:Yeah, do you remember? Yeah, via a little place in Rome, not the main airport. Yeah, I stayed there. Was it just one night?
Rachel:Just one night. Yeah, yeah, yeah, our dwindling funds.
Phoebe:I know yeah.
Rachel:Because we'd already secured your accommodation back in France, not back in Grand Fort Philippe in a lovely little town called Saint-Omer, which is a little bit further for me to commute to, but still doable. It's about 50 minutes from Calais rather than half an hour. Yeah, I feel like you were quite happy there.
Rachel:It was a much more cosmopolitan place yeah, but I think also because, where we were in the journey, I think by the time you came back to france my divorce had come through. Do you remember that? That's right? I think unexpectedly. I remember laying in bed one morning on the phone to you.
Phoebe:You rang in tears, yeah, and I was like oh my God, something terrible has happened.
Rachel:Yeah, and I'd got an email from the court saying that my divorce had been finalized.
Phoebe:Yeah.
Rachel:And we were free to marry, so after that everything seemed a lot brighter. Yeah, it was a long old slog for both of us because, although you were lonely and isolated abroad, I was feeling just as lonely and isolated here in the UK. Yeah, it was crazy, because I would go to work just for the social interaction and find you know my current work and find I didn't actually want to interact with these people and I felt just as lonely and disconnected as probably you were feeling. Yeah, yeah, that's why, when you're in Baphos, we ended up racking up a 700 pound phone bill.
Phoebe:Was it just that much? Was it more.
Rachel:No, I think it was 700 and something pounds.
Phoebe:Well, you used to talk to me when I'd go for walks.
Rachel:We just kind of assumed yeah, you didn't have a phone plan. Yeah, yeah, that gave you any kind of data. Yeah, so you had to be on a phone call. You had a plan that gave you a phone access and we wrongly assumed that my unlimited minutes on my mobile plan would cover the call to cyprus. But we found out quite quickly after the first month that that wasn't the case.
Phoebe:Yeah, but but remember, we, we did this, we started this in france. We'd go on long walks together yeah connected by the phone, even though we were in different areas, and that was lovely. It would describe where we are, what we're doing.
Rachel:We would walk and talk as if we were right next to each other, we would walk at the same time. It was very good, yeah, very good, yeah, and we continued it in Paphos, but obviously you didn't have data, so we had no access to WhatsApp. A phone call from my side, yeah, yeah, so that was fun, but back in france to get things sorted for what turned out to be a grand adventure a very grand adventure so we'd originally picked um gibraltar gibraltar, that's right, we were going to get married in Gibraltar.
Rachel:Yeah, I'm going to go and see the rock and the monkeys. Yes, um, but that was also turning out to be a bit of a headache, because they needed, um, some.
Phoebe:ID from you and they they took longer to deliver the certified certificates that we needed than as it turned out.
Rachel:So the second venue that turned out to be the best venue was Copenhagen, in Denmark. Phoebe, what did you think of Copenhagen? Why are you not working Phoebe's dead?
Phoebe:It was the best one, isn't it? Oh no, it didn't work.
Rachel:Phoebe's stopped working Anyway.
Phoebe:It was the best one it was truly wonderful.
Rachel:I remember we had the date for the wedding secured, April the 9th.
Phoebe:Yeah.
Rachel:So we were looking at flights, but it meant me flying out to Paris, meeting up with Phoebes in Paris at Charles de Gaulle. But the problem was, again, you getting to Paris wasn't easy. And then it was like direct flights to Denmark were okay for me, but you would still have to overcome this hurdle of the bus, train, bus to Paris, yeah. So we decided, in true Red and Freckles style, that we were going to go on a road trip. Yeah, that we were going to drive. A was cheaper, sounded like more fun. Yeah, we would have more time together. Yeah, drive to denmark, why not? We're going to drive to denmark. Um, so we should explain that we have two cars. Yeah, one, a nice big, a nice big seven-seater. Yeah, who we call Clanky. Mm-hmm.
Rachel:Because she had a clank Mm-hmm After a pothole in the New Forest on one of our other adventures. And we have a Fiat 500 called Merengue, ooh.
Phoebe:Looks like an ice cream.
Rachel:It's very lickable. She's very lickable, yeah, so it looks like an ice cream.
Rachel:It's very lickable. She's very lickable, yeah. So obviously we were going to drive to Denmark in Clanky, sleep in the back because the seat's down and it's bigger than a double bed. So, yeah, that was all planned. We had our route planned. I drove out to St Omer, we had a couple of days there and then we were going to head off. Yeah, so I came out to meet you and we went down to Lille. Do you remember? You didn't have any shoes for the wedding, that's right. And we looked and the closest place well, not the closest place, but probably the biggest was St Omer. They had a nice big Primark there At Lille, at Lille, at Lille, yeah, sorry. So we drove down there and on the way back from getting your pink shoes, that turned out to be crippling. So what a waste of a journey. That was because you took them off. Clanky developed a rather worrying noise. Every time we turned left, it rumbled. Do you remember?
Phoebe:it sounded like something was oh yeah, oh, it was terrible.
Rachel:I thought it was like the bearings were gone, gone, but it was somehow worse than that. So then, when we got back to saint omo, and in the late afternoon, early evening, there was no time to get to a garage, so that left us with one day, a friday, before we were due to leave on the saturday to head towards denmark yeah um drive through six countries.
Rachel:That left us one day to try and get the car fixed. Now I don't know if our listeners are aware how lazy the French are. I do apologise if you are listening in France, but you know, it would seem from our experience that you get a lot of time off. Yeah, so a Friday?
Phoebe:Let's just say that doesn't mean that the French are lazy, just they get a lot of time off. Yeah, so a Friday? Let's just say that doesn't mean that the French are lazy, just they get a lot of time off.
Rachel:No, like seven-hour lunch breaks, you need that time to drink a lot of wine and smoke.
Phoebe:You recover from the morning's drinking?
Rachel:Yeah, so we had a lot of difficulty trying to A find somewhere that would fix the car. B explain to them what was going on. I know a little bit of French, but I do not know the French for wheel bearing, drive shaft and all the other sort of things we needed, because apparently the closest we got to actually finding out what was wrong with the car was someone telling us don't drive it.
Phoebe:Yeah.
Rachel:It's very dangerous, yeah, and yet they couldn't explain to us. Even with Google Translate, we couldn't find out what it was. France crying because you know this now threw our whole plans into jeopardy because or it was going to cost us a hell of a lot of money to get flights and the logistics of getting to Paris. The cost would have been astronomical. So I allowed the emotions to envelop me for a minute, yeah, and then I got busy doing what I do and fix the situation he did. So I changed my eurostar reservation, or my it's not the eurostar, is it, it's just is it channel I don't know.
Phoebe:I changed my train reservation.
Rachel:Yeah, I brought it forward to the Friday that we were currently in. Yes, I drove clanky back to the UK. Yes, drove back very slowly in the car. That was so dangerous that I shouldn't be driving it. That's right.
Phoebe:Drove back Talking to me the whole way. Yeah, had you on the phone yeah there.
Rachel:Moral support, yeah yeah, and took about an hour just have a shower, swap the cars over and we were going to resume our planned road trip, not in a seven seater, but in merengue, merengue. Oh yeah, if I swapped the cars, drove back, got back early hours of saturday morning, yeah, had a brief sleep. We loaded everything we could into the back of the Dropped the cars drove back got back early hours of Saturday morning, yeah, had a brief sleep.
Rachel:We loaded everything we could into the back of the van, yeah, and off. We headed. Yeah, through six countries. What a trip that was. I know we went through so obviously I'd been in the UK, so for me it was seven countries. Yeah, so I had UK. France, went through Belgium, had a lovely chat with the Belgian constabulary.
Phoebe:So point out, we stopped on the way right everywhere. Yeah, yeah. And we had the scooters in the back so we could, because we found it a very handy way to get around and see the sights that you want to explore in a limited time. It was perfect.
Rachel:Yeah, had a brief chat with the constabulary in Brussels.
Phoebe:That's right For daring to pop a peanut in your mouth or something like that.
Rachel:Yeah, we were sat at traffic lights. You had a bag of peanuts, yeah, and you offered me a peanut, so I took a peanut, yeah.
Phoebe:And at the time we were looking for, what would the eu building or something? Yeah, I had my phone out.
Rachel:You didn't have a phone out, but you looked at my phone and that was that was it, yeah, so we got pulled over by the belgian police yeah, you're not meant to look at another person's phone who I will say were um lovely and um didn't misgender us, so well done to them for that. So we left Belgium quite quickly after that, yes, and we wound our way up to the Netherlands took a lot of fabulous photos on the way. The Netherlands was great, wasn't it? Oh yeah, so what did we do?
Phoebe:France, belgium, netherlands, germany and then Denmark, oh yeah, yeah. So what did we do? France, Belgium.
Rachel:Netherlands.
Phoebe:Germany, france, germany.
Rachel:And then Denmark, wasn't it? Six countries to me, five for you, yeah, yeah, yeah, stopping off along the way until we finally arrived in wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen, yeah, which, to be honest with with you, it was never high up on my list of places to visit and I was pleasantly surprised, oh, my god place. I would highly recommend a city break to the city of denmark.
Phoebe:yeah, I want to go back I'd like to live there.
Rachel:I would happily live in denmark. It's so nice. I like the culture, the bike culture. Same in the Netherlands. I think all of these European cities, their bike culture is great. We saw it in all of them. Really, they have the infrastructure and it just seems a lot better. You did get knocked off your scooter in Denmark by an overexcited cyclist, I know.
Phoebe:I was in my wedding dress, yeah.
Rachel:So we got married in 1950s. Dresses and petticoats the whole dress thing is a completely different story. Yeah, I might have gone a bit mad and bought us about five wedding dresses until we settled on these ones. Uh, yeah. So, and after we got married, we spent the day in sweden. We zipped across um the bridge.
Rachel:Yeah, we went through the tunnel over the bridge. Yeah, very expensive. In hindsight wouldn't do it again. Um, we spent, spent the the day of our wedding in Sweden, and then we came back and we didn't want to take our wedding dresses off, did we? No, we'd been been to Sweden wearing our wedding dresses, yeah, and then we we zipped around sightseeing in Denmark wearing our wedding dresses and you got knocked off your scooter.
Phoebe:yeah, went flying. It was great. I mean, I'd fallen off that scooter a few times already, so yeah, it wasn't unusual for Phoebs to fall off the scooter. Yeah, I tend to just push it a bit far. Best one, isn't it? Oh, she's back.
Rachel:Phoebs is back. Phoebs, what did you think of Denmark? Best one, isn't it? Oh, she's back.
Both:Pheebs is back. Pheebs, what did you think of Denmark? Best one, isn't it?
Rachel:Perfect Denmark specifically. What about Copenhagen Best? One isn't it.
Phoebe:I think our wedding venue was really special and the officiant was wonderful.
Rachel:It was just a really nice experience.
Phoebe:It was in the town hall, but oh my gosh, what a town hall. And their actual wedding room was extraordinary. It was decorated in a very old crafted style.
Rachel:It felt like a subterranean chapel.
Phoebe:That's a nice way to put it yeah, there's no windows.
Rachel:I don't know if you remember was it underground, it felt there's no windows. I don't have to remember. Was it underground, it felt like it was I don't think it was. I think that was part of down steps or up steps to get to it. But there's no, there were no windows, were there? No, um, but it was. It was really well lit and, like you say, intricate, like artwork on the walls and the ceilings. Yeah, stones on the floor, yeah, it's beautiful. But the most beautiful thing in that room was you.
Rachel:Oh oh honey, and we had our friends there ah yeah, big shout out to becky and kev, yeah, who, as soon as we said we were getting married uh, well, originally in gibraltar. Yeah, they were like, oh, we're coming, yeah, we're coming. And, uh, the change of venue from gibraltar to denmark raised a couple of eyebrows, but they, they came out and they got to share our day with us, which was quite special.
Phoebe:So thank you to them so so was that one eyebrow each yeah, I think so yeah it wasn't four eyebrows two eyebrows between them.
Rachel:That's why it's a few. I should should have raised a couple of eyebrows. You did said that, yeah, but I think they had a nice time. The hotel was lovely, and then we spent. We drove back in. One hit, didn't we? We'd spent a couple of days getting there. We drove back in.
Phoebe:It took 13 hours yeah, it's about 1300 kilometres yeah, drove back.
Rachel:well, you drove yes, and then we had probably so straight after the high point. You drove yes, yes, and then we had probably so straight after the high point of what was a tough time of getting married. We then had another low. Yeah, you had to head back Because AI had to head back. Yeah. And you, to get your visa, had to go back to Australia.
Phoebe:Yeah, for an unknown amount of time. Yeah, still not knowing if they go back to Australia. Yeah, for an unknown amount of time. Yeah, still not knowing if they would even grant it.
Rachel:Yeah, because to apply for a visa for the UK, you have to apply from what is your official country of residence.
Phoebe:Yeah.
Rachel:And it's been as you are, originally from Australia, but off the world. You had to go back to Australia.
Phoebe:Well then, I was no longer a resident of the.
Rachel:US.
Phoebe:Hmm, yeah.
Rachel:Yeah of the world, you had to go back to australia. Well then, I was no longer a resident of the us, yeah, yeah, so you, you weren't much looking forward to being on the other side of the world in in what was a completely different time zone. Yeah, um, and I know well, it was tough. It was tough for me as well. We were kind of like so I work shift. So I was like it's okay because we can. We can talk, still talk when I'm on nights, but it didn't really work out, did it?
Rachel:no, no, it's like, it's like the worst time zone and I know you, you were dreading, heading back and um. In the end, yeah, it turned out okay. Yeah, because, because you got to meet your Australian wife, francine.
Phoebe:She's lovely, yes. I know she's become a dear friend. Yeah, and I learned to play rumming cub, thanks, francine, and we had a really nice time, and where we were staying on the North Shore, there was lots of walks as well.
Rachel:What did you think of Francine in our house? Best one isn't it.
Phoebe:She had a house. She had a pool. Remember one time you called, you had your daughter with you, yeah, and I grabbed the phone. I'm actually just swimming in the pool and yeah, you're you're like oh you're having good time are you yeah, yeah, it was nice to see a different side of sydney, because I'd spent quite a few years living in sydney on and off and it was nice to see that side of it as well I would have liked to have seen it with you and originally our plan was that I was, once your visa was granted, I was going to fly out yeah, meet you in you in Sydney and fly back with you.
Rachel:Because I wanted to bring you back to the UK. Yes, but in the end I just think time and money didn't really work out so, but you were granted your visa quicker than we both thought, yeah and you came back.
Phoebe:Francis, not Francine. Francis, francis, oh god, why do we think it's Francine? I don't know, it changed somewhere sorry Francis.
Rachel:Oh my gosh Francis. What do you think of Francis?
Both:she's the best, not Francine. Oh my gosh, france. What do you think of France?
Rachel:is no, she's the best, she is Not. Francine no no no. I don't know who Francine is Tender to the Australian.
Phoebe:No, no, no. She was really nice and she took me out for dinner to her friends and we went to the library and we I don't mean dinner at the library, we went to the library and we I don't mean dinner at the library we went to an event at the library for women. That was great and I met a very, very interesting person who used to be in the publishing industry and it was nice to be staying with someone I could talk to. That was a big difference. Yeah, and she had interesting guests up to. That was a big difference. Yeah, yeah, and she had interesting guests, a sort of changing rotisserie of yeah, you, you.
Rachel:You kind of spent so long now that in I think in the end it was kind of like francis and phoebe in like welcome you to their home yeah, yeah, that's right, you will you end up becoming part of the furniture. People becoming and going short term yeah because you've actually rented rooms, yeah and um, yeah, but you, you were like a long-term stay. Yeah, um, yes, it was nice. It was nice for me to know that finally you were somewhere where you had someone to sort of to do social stuff with.
Phoebe:Yeah, um, yeah, we went to see a terrible movie together um anyway uh, and then, lo and behold, after waiting all that time, almost seven months at that point I got an email and I remember I was having happy cries, but they were quite vocal. I just like there was so much emotion came pouring out. I remember I was in my room at francis's house and and I phoned you immediately and there there was just a lot of emotion. Yeah, and when I came out of the room, Frances and her guest Romy, from France were both looking at me like kind of aghast. Like you must. You're thinking you've had the most terrible news. It was actually the really good news. It was the best news.
Rachel:Yeah, it was the best news. It was the best news, yeah. And then you came back and then I came back. Your flight was booked quite quickly within a few days within a few days, I met you at the airport yeah just chucked on some clothes oh my god, something special.
Phoebe:Oh my god, I got through. Well, I got through immigration. Thank God, that was nerve-wracking. It was.
Rachel:It was nerve-wracking for me waiting at the airport.
Phoebe:Yeah, I was sure there was going to be secondary screening, there was going to be all sorts of things. I had my passport First finally a passport in my now legal name, but it had never been used before and I went straight through the automatic gates. No problems, that's just brilliant.
Rachel:Into the arms of your waiting wife. Well, resplendent, resplendent, in a sequ a sequined union jack dress, yes, holding a flag, yes, I know, but I again raising eyebrows yeah in the I'd had more than one person come over and compliment my outfit, and someone, someone even came over and they were like oh, I just got back on the flight and to see you did. I know you're not here for me, but thank you for welcoming me home.
Phoebe:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw you and just went, oh my God, and broke into a run. And now you're back.
Rachel:Now I'm back. Yeah, it's been good. It was quite the ride, wasn't it?
Phoebe:Well, the thing is it. Well, the thing is uh, I it was. It was horrible, all the uncertainty and. But this is something that millions of people go through when they're changing countries. It's, it's not an easy process. You're, there's a kind of presumption of guilt and instead of innocence in this process, there's you must have done something wrong. We're going to find out what it is. Yeah, if we can't find anything, then in you can come, but you know, on on a sort of probationary arrangement.
Phoebe:um, make sure you don't do anything wrong whilst you're here, which annoys me because I want to participate more in protests for transgender rights and so on, especially with what's happening in this country, and I simply dare not. I can't risk being arrested for any reason whatsoever.
Rachel:But in five years' time, watch out government Phoebe's coming.
Phoebe:Yeah, yeah, that's right You'll become a citizen of one of the most transphobic countries in the world now.
Rachel:Yeah, I can't believe you fought so hard to become one.
Phoebe:I know we were interviewing someone just last night for our book how to Transition. Oh, we'll get onto to that in a minute. They were saying they'd also moved from the US to the UK and started transitioning here and saying, oh, woe betide. You know I'm suddenly in this. I chose the worst country, but it's such a lovely country for all sorts of other reasons, including that you're here and that your daughter's here I was going to push the button you changed it.
Rachel:It made it nice of course it's nice.
Phoebe:Why else would I be here?
Rachel:because it was going to be because you're here.
Phoebe:But then you were like you're here and your daughter's here and I was like, oh, I can't push it yes, moving from somewhere where it was a simple case of informed consent in Connecticut and still quite a number of other US states, even though it's atrocious elsewhere to a place where I don't even have any hope of getting into the medical system, the HRT, at all, just none.
Rachel:Well, I've given up hope of getting into the system.
Phoebe:Yeah, yeah, well, I've given up hope of getting into the system. Yeah, yeah, so I diy, which costs pennies. So, um, because I also homebrew, but we should. We'll talk about that.
Rachel:We'll talk about that later episode yeah, or you can check out all the details on that in our upcoming book. Indeed, how to?
Phoebe:transition. Oh, another book promo, you had it ready.
Rachel:Nice, nice, yes yes, um, yeah, um. So what else has been going on?
Rachel:we've been writing the book, finally, yes it, we've been planning it before you left yes before you were ejected, yes, and now that you're back, we've really made a lot of progress on that. So we're writing a book. We have a website, yeah, ready for recordscom, yeah, and you can find out everything about us and what we're doing on there. Yeah, and I think we've written on long enough about where we've been and what's happened we have. There's something else I wanted to talk about, because mainly because a lot of people have been asking me about it and I don't know why they've been specifically asking me about the Netflix documentary Will and Harper yes, why have they been asking you?
Phoebe:I don't know, I know, I don't know. Oh, because they're like oh, we saw a movie that had a trans person in it. It. So we've had all of our trans questions answered at last. Oh, you're a trans person that I've known for 20 years, but let me um oh no, I thought it's because will ferrell's funny and I'm funny you're funnier than will ferrell. They're asking me anyway.
Rachel:So I I read uh an article the other day and it said Will and Harper is the film the trans community needs right now.
Phoebe:Oh, really yeah Needs.
Rachel:Yeah, yeah. What do you think about that? First of all, we watched it together the other night.
Phoebe:Uh-huh.
Rachel:What did you think about it?
Phoebe:Okay, I appreciate that something. Anything positive about trans people is a good thing and it's needed. It clearly wasn't the purpose of this movie. I think the producers or director or whoever felt the need to shoehorn in as much Ferrell being funny as they could, but it turns out he's not naturally that funny. He says in the movie that he needs a script. He's not an ad-lib person. He really, really isn't, and sometimes that made it even harder for Harper.
Rachel:We all looked suitably uncomfortable throughout the whole thing. I felt, yes, but I don't know if that's just how he is. When he's unscripted, he's naturally just uncomfortable, unless he's actually got a script to fall back on. Yes, spoiler alert, we'll tell you right now because we are going to talk about some details of it. True, I'll just say that my opinion of it was, I do agree, the film that the trans community needs right now. Well, anything like you said, anything positive, is good. So, yes, in that respect, it was something we needed. I feel it stopped short, very, very short of being the film that we need right now. In it, a couple of things were highlighted which I welcomed, including the instant online transphobia. Yeah, so, like the misgendering of Harper by a waitress. Yeah.
Rachel:The online hate towards transgender people? Yeah, but there was a couple of bits in it that I felt they're basically bad for allyship. Yeah, it's the wrong message yeah, so Will gets to ask. Harper, I need to ask you a question and I said to you straight away I know what this question is it's about what are you going to do surgically?
Rachel:what are you going to do, uh, surgically, what you, what, what you're going to keep in your pants? And, yeah, why do they all want to know that? Why does everyone? I don't know, I don't know. It's it's, it's weird that people want to talk about your genitals, um, and just just for everyone out there and everyone who wants to be an ally, it's not okay to ask that question. Yeah, it really isn't.
Rachel:No, and Harper felt like she was being protected by having Will Ferrell with her. So the whole premise of the film was that they were going to go on a road trip to sort of rediscover what their friendship was. Yeah, now that harper transitioned to female, um, but also harper was visiting places that she would like to or had previously visited on her own to see whether she could still do that as a trans woman rather than a cis male that she presented as before, and she felt that having Will with her was giving her an element of protection. But I would say it was actually the opposite of that. I think rocking up with Will Ferrell is going to bring you a lot more attention, and also something that Will Ferrell did with I don't know whether it was probably with Harper's permission, but I still feel it was wrong. Is he outed her to 20,000 people at a live basketball game?
Phoebe:Yes, he kept introducing her as kind of my recently transitioned friend.
Rachel:Yeah, yeah, and again allies. You don't get to do that. Yeah. Don't ever out one of your trans friends to anyone without their permission. No, or just don't do it. It's the easiest way to do it no, so yeah, I have issues with it. On the whole, I think probably it is a good introduction to people who have no clue about what it's like to be trans. It's like a nice little soft entry into that world.
Phoebe:Yes, yes, it was an insight, a glimpse, yeah, but it was also. It felt like I don't know another feral vehicle in some ways, and I can see why they felt the need to do that, but it also detracted from it. I wish that there would be more documentaries about trans people, about our lives, but perhaps they obviously wouldn't get as much viewership. So it has. It's the good with the bad.
Rachel:The thing is right. I think if you did a documentary about our lives, if you, if a camera followed us around, yeah you, you would see that on a day-to-day basis in the normal world. Yeah, it's just a normal, boring life really yeah you know only really online and in certain situations that you actually get the transphobia. Yeah, this is what we spoke about with um, with the guy we were talking to last night with Dan, that I think we're lucky in that we pass and if you pass, you get left alone yeah yeah, the only issue is our voices.
Phoebe:But yeah, fuck them this is my voice, proud to be trans.
Rachel:That's all there is to it that's just our little opinion on Will and Harper, but you should definitely check it out and hopefully by the next episode. There's another film we want to check out that is made by a trans director, and that's I Saw the TV Chloe. Yes, we've got that one on our list to watch. Yeah, if we can put down our controllers and stop playing minecraft for long enough, we'll we'll get around to watching that tell me what we think about that maybe this should be a thing.
Rachel:Maybe we should review some trans content each week to replace the why not replace the crappy news?
Phoebe:right, we're talking about some trans content well, I've got a great book to talk about as well. We've got a great book to talk about not our book. Ah, our book's a great book. Yeah, yeah, it's coming along nicely.
Rachel:I'm currently um nearing the end of the excellent memoir by our our well phoebe's, dear friend and friend of the podcast yeah oliver yeah, oliver redcliffe. Oliver Redcliffe. His memoir is out and he's just smashing it out in the States at the moment. Oh, absolutely yeah, yeah, yeah.
Phoebe:And the book is Such a powerful voice.
Rachel:It's brilliant, I mean, I love it. Yeah.
Rachel:I loved Oliver's first little book. Yeah, adult, human Male. Yeah. You know, I just love the writing. I'm currently. I have a hardback copy of the book and I'm also listening to it. Frighten the Horses, frighten the Horses. Yeah, I have a hardback copy of the book Frighten the Horses and I'm also listening to it on Audible, because I love listening to Oliver. I love to listen to him in an interview, yeah, but to hear the story actually straight from the horse's mouth, oh my lord, oh my lord, hey you like that one.
Rachel:Yeah, yeah, yeah, um yeah, it's, it's, it's good. I think it adds another dimension to it, and I was, I was telling you because you haven't read it yet, because I don't know why you haven't read it. I just haven't yet, you just haven't. Are you because you? You've got other other titles on the go at the moment? Yes, that's on your reading list, um, but I was. I was telling you it's. There's a lot in there that makes me uncomfortable because it forces memories to resurface from my own pre-transition transition story. Yeah, um, and it's interesting, very interesting for me to see the similarities that a trans mask has gone through, but also the differences, you know, coming at the same problem from a different angle.
Phoebe:Yeah.
Rachel:It's a great book If you're trans read it. If you're not trans read it, I can't endorse it enough.
Phoebe:Yeah, that's one of the things about engaging with the community is that you realize that, as unique as your story feels to yourself, and that we've all gone through what many of us have gone through similar things, yeah, and we come out the other side stronger, better and, hopefully without too many regrets. No, regrets, no regrets?
Rachel:I don't have any. No regrets, just losses. Yes, who said that? Oliver I know okay, so I think we've been wittering on for long enough.
Phoebe:Oh yes.
Rachel:So just one thing we need to mention quickly, just along the lines of the book and everything is we have a thing coming up on the 26th of November in London. Yes, it's the Facial Team's Second Gender Affirming Health Forum. Yes, and we're giving a talk.
Phoebe:We are Well. Facial Team is also supporting our book, which is lovely. They're one of the sponsors and that was really quite special.
Rachel:So thank you, Facial Team. Yes, thank you, Facial Team. Yeah, and we will be giving a talk at the second gender affirming health forum and our talk is entitled. Do you want to give away the name of the talk? It's called Translabyrinth yes it's not about the book. There'll be a little bit of book in there, but it's not about the book anyway. So should we wrap this up?
Phoebe:yes. So thank you so much, listeners, for tuning, yeah, anyway. So should we wrap this up? Yes, yeah, yes. So thank you so much, listeners, for tuning in and being part of our community. If you want to connect with us further, please visit us at the website we mentioned earlier, redandfrecklescom, where you can get updated on all the things that we're doing.
Rachel:You can also follow us on Twitter, instagram and Blue Sky. Does anyone even use Blue Sky?
Phoebe:Hopefully.
Rachel:I don't know. All of our socials are at 2DampTrans and we're on Facebook as well, and you can DM us on any of those platforms if you have any questions or topics you'd like us to discuss.
Phoebe:And don't forget to subscribe and rate us on Spotify, apple, youtube, as well as wherever you listen to podcasts. We're on all the popular platforms now, and even some of the unpopular ones too. We appreciate your feedback and your support.
Rachel:So until next time, remember you are valid.
Phoebe:You are beautiful and you are transcending boundaries.
